Upholding A Culture Of Integrity & Ethics

(0:00) Thank you so much for having me here. (0:03) Yeah, we are really delighted to have you. (0:07) Our opportunity here, I think, is to talk through a little bit of what’s happening in your organization, (0:13) sort of where you were, where you are, how you’ve been able to drive that change.

(0:18) And so I think first, it might be helpful for people to understand your role at Entrata, (0:23) you know, where you were, how you came into this particular role and what your key goals were. (0:29) Sure. (0:31) So my role as a Senior Director of Organizational Development encompasses a lot.

(0:37) So I started out, it’s a very big title that covers a lot of ground. (0:42) Our company has about 2,200 people globally. (0:46) So we’re in four countries, India, US, Netherlands, and Israel now.

(0:51) We recently acquired a company in Israel, which was really exciting. (0:55) And so my role encompasses employee listening, elements of talent management, organizational development, and L&D. (1:04) And so in the learning and development piece, that’s where we come in with the compliance training part (1:10) and how that came under my ownership.

(1:14) And with a background in industrial and organizational psychology, (1:18) I come from the lens of, we look at everything with data and numbers. (1:23) And that includes employee sentiment. (1:26) And so as we were looking at compliance, we previously just looked at it as like the check the box type of thing, (1:35) which I think is pretty common.

(1:38) And then when I was introduced to Emtrain, there was a shift because I’m now able to see how employees feel. (1:47) So just like a little bit about our company, so you understand the journey that we’re on. (1:52) And which I think, you know, each of our organizations is unique.

(1:56) Our company was founded about 21 years ago, and it was founder led. (2:03) And it was founder led until 2022, the beginning of 2022, when we were beginning to be backed by private equity. (2:14) And at that point, there was a major shift in how things were done.

(2:18) And so we went from sort of like the startup vibe into a quickly maturing organization (2:29) in order to prepare ourselves for potential IPO at some point. (2:33) And we are in the property management space. (2:36) And a key part of property management is actually fintech, so financial technology.

(2:42) So that’s where a lot of, there’s a lot, a lot of regulation in these areas. (2:47) And including even in property management, when you think about fair housing and when you think about affordable housing. (2:54) So all of that to say, we didn’t have a lot of information about how people felt about the security of the company (3:06) and the ethics and the inclusion and all of this information (3:10) because we were going from this very bootstrapped type of company (3:14) to rolling out lots of different tech and different approaches with new leadership.

(3:21) So that’s kind of where we are right now. (3:23) And I play a role across the organization and working in a lot of different areas. (3:28) But this one has really become very interesting to me since I started working with M-Chain.

(3:34) Yeah, that’s great. (3:35) I think, you know, we’ve got different clients and other organizations on this session (3:42) who might be at various stages of corporate life, right? (3:45) Where some might be small, might be growing, might be pre-IPO like all of you. (3:50) And then on the other hand, you know, large organizations that have had structures in place maybe for decades.

(3:56) But no matter what, as we’ve got these new regulations, new laws, more oversight from regulators (4:02) like the Department of Justice or the EEOC on the HR side, we have to change behaviors, right? (4:08) There are things that our people need to be able to do. (4:11) And it strikes me that a lot of what you did was around change management. (4:16) So I’d be interested in getting a sense of like that base case, (4:20) like kind of where you were, what was happening in the organization at the time, (4:24) and then how you thought about the change that you would need to drive (4:27) to get to the organization that you knew you needed to be.

(4:31) Sure. (4:32) So when I joined a couple of years ago, it was hard to know what kind of a baseline we even had. (4:38) So we’ve got people checking the boxes.

(4:41) There’s sort of different things are going on differently in different departments. (4:47) We believe that we’re in a good space and, you know, when it comes to compliance ethics, (4:54) especially integrity, a lot of that comes down to employee sentiment. (4:59) Like how do they feel about it? (5:01) How do our employees view how we’re doing? (5:04) They’re the ones who are logging in every day and doing the work.

(5:08) So they’re seeing firsthand. (5:10) And at the time when I joined, the company had previously done annual surveys (5:15) and I came from a background of, you know, measuring employee sentiment (5:19) with, you know, different vendors where we’re collecting data. (5:23) But there is a hesitancy, and I think everyone here who’s experienced this, (5:28) of what you want to say in a survey about your ethics, your integrity, (5:35) about what the company is doing, because there’s always, we’re always kind of suspect (5:39) to like what’s going on.

(5:41) And I have been at much, a much larger company before there, (5:45) and we could kind of get a little bit of a better gauge of if people knew, (5:50) at least where to go, if they had something that they wanted to report. (5:54) Now at this company, like I said, we’re building. (5:57) And so I don’t, not even sure if everyone knew exactly what the steps were (6:02) that they needed to take.

(6:03) And then further, we didn’t have any idea, and asking a survey question, (6:09) you know, you have a small amount of real estate in a survey. (6:12) So let’s say you have 40 questions, you have a lot of different things to ask about. (6:15) So you might get one or two questions that are related to ethics and integrity.

(6:19) And then you add in this piece where somebody is, may not, may be hesitant to share. (6:26) And so what I learned from you all is that the first time I took these trainings, (6:34) I look at this little dial that we’re supposed to move. (6:37) And I thought, nobody’s doing this.

(6:39) They’re just kind of moving it and clicking through, (6:40) because I’m going from the mindset of people just trying to finish a training (6:44) and check their box. (6:46) But then as the data started coming in, what we were seeing is that like, (6:49) people were being at least somewhat mindful of it. (6:53) And so my perspective was that even if half of our company was moving that dial, (7:00) that meant that we had data to work with.

(7:03) And so people didn’t really know they were being surveyed, (7:07) and it really was truly anonymous. (7:09) So we’re getting a massive amount of data around very specific topics (7:14) and questions that we wouldn’t necessarily ask in a normal training (7:18) because we’d just be doing a knowledge check. (7:21) So then that was an area for us to be able to find potential hotspots (7:25) where we could focus our attention.

(7:28) And it was just like, just getting that first set of data back was really like, (7:33) that was proof to me that there was value in this and that it was worth (7:37) not just continuing, but investing more in our relationship with you all (7:42) to make sure that we were getting the information that we needed. (7:46) Yeah, yeah, I think that’s, it’s really interesting. (7:48) You know, you had a business need to train people on things like global data privacy (7:52) and cybersecurity and some of these other themes.

(7:57) And, you know, many people are doing that through online training (8:00) because it’s scalable and it’s check the box and people are being asked, (8:05) you know, do you know what you’re supposed to do, you know, in this situation? (8:08) Or do you understand that this law is present in the UK around data privacy? (8:13) And that’s helpful, but not really going to change the behaviors (8:18) or measure the workplace. (8:20) And so I know, as you well know, Emtrain embeds questions in our training (8:25) that actually ask the learner about what’s happening in the organization. (8:30) So there might be a question around password sharing or maybe apps (8:34) that you’re using for work that have not been approved for your organization (8:39) to use and testing on all those little detailed items (8:44) that can actually have a security breach (8:47) or can mean that people are misusing customer data or something like that.

(8:52) And so we’re doing these little spot checks right within the training (8:56) and learners don’t even realize they’re being surveyed to your point. (8:59) And we do see from the data and I appreciate you mentioning that, (9:03) you know, people aren’t just like clicking the neutral box (9:06) or the I don’t know box. (9:07) People are actually responding to these questions (9:10) and you can tell from the way that they respond (9:13) that they’re being, you know, authentic in their responses.

(9:16) And so it ends up being this large data set (9:21) because it’s usually mandatory training (9:23) and everyone in the organization is taking the training (9:25) and you’re asking questions about what’s actually happening in the workplace (9:29) from, as you say, the people who are doing the work every day. (9:33) So they can kind of report back through this mechanism to you. (9:37) I think that when you, you know, did see the results in the Emtrain data, (9:42) there were some things that you thought, (9:44) oh, we’ve got some easy quick wins here.

(9:47) Some things that I can change, some communications I could put out, (9:50) some processes I could improve. (9:53) Do you want to talk a little bit to some of those changes (9:56) that you might have made after you saw the Emtrain data? (9:59) Sure. (10:00) So this was actually, I mean, for us, this was really good timing (10:05) because these were things that we were already considering implementing (10:08) and they were, some of them were small and some of them were big.

(10:11) So as we were growing as a company, as we were shifting our leadership, (10:14) we were really amping up our information security team. (10:18) And like, again, the industry that we’re in, (10:21) it’s, we have to do that. (10:23) That’s not a question that as the world grows (10:25) and as things get smaller, it’s very easy to be hacked.

(10:29) It’s very easy to have security issues (10:33) and it’s oftentimes innocent things where an employee clicks on something (10:37) that in an email, like these are not intentional pieces of this. (10:43) Nobody’s trying to hurt anything. (10:46) And so we were already building that up, (10:48) which I think was a major shift (10:50) because when we see the investment into that, (10:53) into that team and the amount of hiring, (10:56) not only did it speak to the need of our customers, (10:59) but I think that it also showed, it exemplified, (11:02) like, what does this look like when it is done well? (11:05) So that was one.

(11:07) Another thing that was sort of like an ancillary thing (11:09) that I wasn’t, I never even really thought about (11:12) is that we have had in the past six months or so (11:16) of a bigger return to office. (11:18) And our building, our headquarters in Utah (11:23) is an amazing building. (11:25) And, you know, when there wasn’t that many, (11:27) when people were just coming in because they wanted to (11:30) and it wasn’t mandated at the time.

(11:33) They were very used to working remotely. (11:36) I think that there was, there wasn’t as much of a need (11:39) for certain security measures in terms of the building. (11:42) And that wasn’t because we didn’t care about the employees.

(11:46) It’s just there wasn’t as many people coming in. (11:48) And so it was a little bit, (11:51) when we decided to do the return to office, (11:54) we had to look at everything. (11:56) Like, not just, you know, do we have enough equipment for people? (11:59) Do we have enough seats for people? (12:01) But what does it look like to now come to work (12:04) after years post-COVID of not doing that? (12:07) And so some of these things were, (12:09) these measures were put in place (12:10) and we’ve seen shifts in people’s sentiment (12:13) towards security of the building, like physical security.

(12:18) Even though it wasn’t something that we were thinking (12:21) this was going to, this was just a part of what we do. (12:24) It’s what we return. (12:25) And then my final example was, (12:28) this was a really almost an accidental one, (12:30) but it was really cool.

(12:32) So we have this really large security meeting town hall (12:36) and everybody joined and our CTO, (12:41) he didn’t even really plan this, (12:43) but he ended up going down this path of teaching everybody (12:46) about how to protect their own passwords, (12:50) like their personal stuff. (12:51) This is what can happen. (12:53) This is how you set these things up.

(12:54) And I mean, this man is our CISO and CTO, (12:58) so he really knows this well. (13:00) And also being at that senior level level (13:02) of the organization makes him a potential target (13:05) for these things. (13:07) And so it was almost unintentional, (13:10) but it was one of the best town halls I’ve ever been to (13:13) and we get requests all the time for the links (13:15) so that people can go and set all this stuff up for themselves.

(13:19) Those types of things, small or big, (13:24) have really shifted, I think, (13:26) how people feel about our ethics, (13:30) our integrity, and our security at our company. (13:33) Yeah, that’s awesome. (13:34) I think it sounds like you’ve almost got a three-part mechanism (13:37) to drive some of these changes.

(13:40) One, you’re training from Emtrain, (13:42) you’re getting data, (13:44) you’re seeing opportunities to address maybe weaknesses (13:48) or other concerns in the organization, (13:51) which you can see by location, group, department, (13:54) things like that. (13:55) Two, you’re growing anyway, (13:57) so you’re bringing in more professionals, (14:00) you have more robust teams, (14:01) they can use that data to determine what they need to do (14:04) and what communications they need to put out. (14:06) And three, you’ve got top-down buy-in, right? (14:08) You’ve got someone who understands the importance (14:12) of these types of training, (14:14) maybe it’s a security training, (14:16) someone who’s personally vested, (14:18) and someone who cares to teach others, right? (14:22) So not only is it good leadership, (14:23) it’s also empathetic leadership (14:25) and someone that wants to make sure (14:27) that nobody else gets in a bad situation.

(14:31) So love that you’ve got multiple mechanisms there (14:35) that all seem to work together (14:37) and worked together at a particular point in time (14:39) that made this all very successful for you, (14:42) like a lot of change management (14:44) in a pretty short period of time. (14:46) Yeah, and just to add to that, (14:47) I mean, it also validated everything. (14:50) So when I looked at this data, (14:53) it’s, and then you want to go in (14:56) and make some massive changes, (14:58) it’s hard to justify that when your executive team (15:02) or the people who, the departments are like, (15:04) I don’t really, I don’t know about this.

(15:07) Like, I’m not convinced. (15:09) And then you see, okay, well, we were making these changes (15:11) and look at the shift that we saw. (15:14) Now, it’s like we built our own case study (15:17) and both intentional and unintentional, (15:21) and that gives us more credibility (15:24) when it comes to asking people to do these trainings.

(15:27) And honestly, they’re really good trainings (15:29) and I’m not just like, (15:31) I think that all of us have taken enough trainings (15:34) around compliance and we’ve all experienced ones (15:38) where we’re like, you know, dozing off (15:41) or we are, and that’s another piece (15:43) that like we genuinely actually like the format. (15:49) So, which makes it even easier (15:51) because it’s more engaging than most that I’ve seen. (15:53) And then people are being honest.

(15:54) Like, there’s just wins all around with this approach (15:57) and it’s been really exciting for me (16:00) because then I can also come to a leader (16:04) or an executive and say, look, here’s a hotspot. (16:07) This one’s by location. (16:09) Like, we don’t need to focus all of our attention on this.

(16:12) Just, let’s say it’s in the U.S. (16:13) Like, India needs this a little bit more than the U.S. does. (16:16) So, let’s make sure that we can address it (16:18) in the right spot instead of globally saying (16:21) we’re going to address this one particular behavior (16:26) when it doesn’t necessarily apply to everybody. (16:28) We can do much more targeted interventions, (16:30) which is amazing from the perspective of behavior change.

(16:36) For sure, for sure. (16:37) Yeah, that’s one of the things we’re most excited about (16:39) when clients are using our analytics (16:42) and segmenting out the results by location (16:45) or group or department. (16:48) It really allows all of you practitioners (16:52) to go in and solve the problem (16:54) and to, and or to like focus your time and energy (16:57) on the worst part of the problem (17:00) so that you’re not just bluntly asking everybody (17:04) to do something that they may not even need to do (17:07) because they might have really good practices (17:09) in this one group or this one location (17:11) or this one department.

(17:13) And then you’re going to find the folks who’s, (17:16) you know, maybe they’ve got a couple of managers (17:18) who are like, yeah, you don’t really need to follow (17:19) that policy. (17:20) We never do that or that’s just going to slow you down. (17:23) You know, you’ve got a couple of, (17:24) you know, behavioral instances (17:30) where people are being discouraged (17:32) from following your policies.

(17:33) You really need everybody to follow your policies. (17:36) So instead of saying to everyone across the organization, (17:39) you know, again, go read this policy again. (17:42) You go to that one spot, (17:43) that one location that you know from our data (17:46) might be, you know, avoiding the policy (17:49) or there’s just something happening (17:51) in that one location.

(17:53) You can go and you can investigate (17:55) and you can resolve it pretty quickly. (17:56) So I think that’s really powerful for efficiencies (17:59) and also like to mitigate the risk. (18:03) Yeah.

(18:03) I mean, that’s huge. (18:05) Just knowing that there is a problem (18:07) is the first part to solve it. (18:10) So.

(18:12) Very true. (18:14) So you’ve done so much work to get your organization (18:18) up to a really strong knowledge base (18:20) around all of these compliance topics, (18:23) putting yourself in an excellent position, (18:26) you know, having been able to help nudge people along (18:30) or instruct people to move along (18:32) or perhaps they were not as compliant (18:34) as you might have liked them to be. (18:36) So I wonder, you know, what’s next for you? (18:39) I know that you’ve been talking a little bit about inclusion (18:41) and sort of using the same pattern that you’ve used (18:44) or the same training plus data insights (18:48) to maybe start working on inclusion there.

(18:51) Yeah. (18:51) So one thing that I will recommend to anybody (18:54) and this goes across not just compliance, (18:57) not just training, (18:58) is that I find that in people teams, (19:01) we sometimes implement things. (19:04) We get really excited about the tech (19:05) and then we stack on too much to do at once (19:08) and we have to be realistic about (19:11) what do we have time to do? (19:12) What are our top priorities? (19:13) So for us, the inclusion element of it (19:18) was not our top priority.

(19:19) We needed to get some of these more foundational pieces (19:21) into place. (19:23) And so, and again, where we are in our maturity, (19:27) we didn’t have like ERGs (19:29) that were really functioning all over the place. (19:32) We didn’t have the same level of global growth.

(19:36) I mean, even our location in India was an acquisition. (19:39) We’ve been working with them forever for 20 years, (19:42) but formally we were not the same company. (19:47) And so when I look at the future (19:50) and how we can use things, (19:52) I’m seeing again with also acquiring a company in Israel, (19:56) like these are very different communication styles, (20:00) very different understanding, (20:02) very different ways of operating (20:04) and how work gets done, (20:06) how decisions are made.

(20:06) And so this is a way, (20:10) there’s so many great little micro lessons (20:12) and lessons that are about, (20:15) that I’ve discovered just by looking through (20:18) and seeing, okay, I’m putting together a training (20:22) or a talk about how we can work together globally. (20:25) What types of resources do I have? (20:27) And then I go straight to Emtrain (20:28) because I know that there’s really great information there. (20:33) And I find all sorts of smaller trainings (20:37) that really get into what are the differences (20:41) that we can expect to see and videos.

(20:45) Like what does it look like to be in a culture (20:47) that does a lot of saving face? (20:50) What does it look like to be in a culture (20:51) that’s very direct? (20:53) And how will that make somebody uncomfortable (20:56) or more comfortable? (20:57) And how can we prepare them to be working together? (20:59) And also, I think that we think we’re prepared (21:03) to work with a completely different culture (21:05) with different styles. (21:06) And then we get there and we’re like, (21:08) oh, this is not what I thought it was. (21:10) I thought when they meant direct, (21:12) I did not think I was going to be called out (21:14) in a meeting with a raised voice (21:18) and it’s not even intended to be an insult.

(21:22) So those areas of the global growth (21:25) and of the ERGs, educating people, (21:28) especially when we have different months (21:32) that we celebrate, Black History Month, (21:35) Hispanic Heritage Month, (21:37) where can I help support the ERG leaders (21:40) and say, here’s a little micro lesson. (21:44) It’s not mandatory, but share it with your group. (21:48) They may share it with people.

(21:49) And then before you know it, (21:50) we’ve collected some more data in the background (21:53) that will help us move that forward. (21:55) So my hope for us is that we can, (21:58) as we grow more, especially globally, (22:01) we can work more on inclusion (22:03) and how do we manage working cross-culturally (22:09) and internationally, (22:11) because that’s, for us, (22:13) going to be really big as we grow. (22:16) Yeah, I think that’s great.

(22:17) You talk about acquisition (22:18) and it strikes me that you’ve got two things (22:21) that you need to do with acquisitions. (22:22) You need to get them into your compliance culture, (22:26) what you do through training. (22:28) And you can also assess (22:29) what’s happening in those locations.

(22:31) Are there any hotspots that you need to be aware of (22:33) now that you are responsible (22:34) and have oversight for those organizations? (22:37) And then also just blending (22:38) how we work together cross-culturally, (22:41) as you mentioned. (22:42) You’re talking about our global mindset micro lessons, (22:45) which we actually co-developed with the Workday team, (22:49) really thinking about how hierarchy works (22:53) in different locations. (22:55) We did one called American, (22:58) we call internally American enthusiasm, right? (23:01) So here in the U.S. we’ll often say, (23:03) hey, everything’s going great, (23:04) even if a project is missing its deadlines.

(23:07) And if you’re working with folks in Israel or Germany, (23:09) they’re going to say, (23:10) no, you’re completely off deadline. (23:13) You know, this is a problem we need to fix. (23:15) And so just getting through this, (23:18) the cultural change, (23:20) you know, how we be respectful to leadership (23:22) in countries where hierarchy is really important (23:26) and recognizing that we might need to flex a little bit (23:29) and they might need to flex a little bit.

(23:31) But if we all take the same trainings, (23:32) we understand a little bit more (23:34) about where one another is coming from. (23:36) And so it really does help to grow that awareness (23:41) and it helps you strategize (23:43) when you’re working with another team (23:44) so that you can get around the roadblocks faster, (23:46) so you can have better communication (23:48) and collaboration and productivity. (23:51) So I think it’s really great (23:53) that you’re taking advantage of so much of what we’re doing (23:55) and that you’re doing it, (23:56) it’s like the right time (23:57) and the right space for your organization.

(24:00) Yeah, that’s one of the biggest parts, (24:03) like what do we have time (24:04) where we can’t tackle everything at once? (24:05) What do we need right now? (24:07) What can people apply right now? (24:09) And those are the things outside of the scope (24:11) of what do the regulators require of us. (24:13) Those are, that’s what else can we get from this (24:18) and how can we support our employees (24:20) in just how we work as a company and as a team. (24:23) Yeah, and so I’m sure your executive leaders (24:26) from the examples that you’ve already shown, (24:28) you sort of see the ROI of it, right? (24:30) Because sometimes leaders are like, (24:31) wow, all this training time, you know, (24:33) is it really worth it? (24:35) I imagine that they’re really starting to see the return (24:38) on the investment of the training that you’ve done.

(24:41) Yeah, for sure. (24:43) With all of that, it comes into, again, (24:47) it’s baby steps, like let’s put in the parts that we need. (24:50) Let’s get everything in one location (24:51) that’s required for auditing (24:54) and then now let’s start testing things out.

(24:56) Let’s see where there are hot spots (24:57) when a leader comes in and says, (24:59) I think that there might be a problem in this area, (25:01) in this part of the organization. (25:03) We can say, okay, well, we do have some training on this (25:05) and a lot of times people just aren’t aware. (25:08) Honestly, sometimes the, especially from the people side, (25:11) people say and do things that it’s a lack of awareness.

(25:16) It’s not about intent. (25:18) It’s just about what they think (25:21) they are doing something appropriate (25:23) when these laws change all the time (25:27) and we’re always growing as a culture. (25:31) So that’s one of the big things that I find (25:34) and where the ROI is on this (25:36) is that we can do things just in time.

(25:38) We can use data to show that it’s effective (25:42) and we can expand the use where we need it, (25:45) when we need it. (25:47) Thank you so much for sharing, Mary. (25:49) I think it’s, you know, for us watching, (25:51) you know, your organization as you sort of had these goals (25:55) that you needed to, you know, achieve, (25:58) but then also like the transformation of your organization, (26:03) the growth of your organization, (26:05) the way in which you’ve approached the next steps, (26:08) it’s just been a real amazing lesson in change management.

(26:12) You individually have done a ton of great work (26:15) and you really built a lot of advocacy, (26:18) a lot of, you know, internal momentum around this (26:23) through your executive teams too. (26:24) So congratulations. (26:25) It’s been really fun to watch (26:27) and we’re really honored to have been a part of it.

(26:29) Thank you. (26:30) It’s been great working with you all (26:31) and I have amazing partners that I work with within my company. (26:34) So I don’t want to forget the fact that I don’t know anything (26:36) about Bank Secrecy Act.

(26:38) And so I’ve had to learn all of these things (26:40) and they have been fantastic working with you all too. (26:43) So I appreciate you having me and being able to share, (26:46) you know, what my experience was (26:48) so that others can kind of get an idea (26:50) for what they might want to do. (26:52) Amazing.

(26:53) Thank you so much. (26:54) Thank you. (26:55) Thanks everyone for attending.

(26:57) Happy to answer any questions after the conference is over. (27:01) Feel free to reach out. (27:02) Thank you, Mary.

(27:03) Appreciate it. (27:18) Okay. (27:21) We’re off.

(27:23) We’re off the stage. (27:24) All right. (27:25) So I’m jumping to my next session.

(27:29) Did any questions come in? (27:32) I couldn’t see them. (27:33) Yeah, I couldn’t see the chat. (27:34) Okay, cool.

(27:36) All right. (27:38) Well, thank you all. (27:39) Thanks all.

(27:40) Bye. (27:40) Bye. (27:41) Bye.